Um, I haven't been on these forums for a while, but I just noticed in the "CTP Release one info" thread above that a /replacing/ re-skin is planned - specifically the Dungeon Reskin by Ashtefere.
I am not sure why the decision was made to do this rather than making a non-replacing reskin tileset, however, I urge you to reconsider this.
Using this reskin does not just affect the Bioware Dungeon tileset - it also affects any other hak that references the Bioware Dungeon textures. Now from my work in the past with the CTP I know this is not going to be an issue with the CTP tilesets which are very well-behaved and self sufficient as regards their textures, however, there is one widely used and popular hak which makes copious references to Bioware textures (and a lot of these are from the Bioware Dungeon).
Which hak?
The CEP.
So, using this reskin, if a builder is using the CEP, then certain placeables will have their textures changed, and (even more aesthetically disturbing) certain /parts/ of placeables will have their textures changed.
For this reason many builders may not adopt this reskin and Ashtefere's work may not get the use it so richly deserves.
As a non-replacing hak, builders need have no fear of adding it to their modules, and in the case of PW builders, it is not an either/or situation, they simply get another style of dungeon to use /in addition/ to the Bioware one which they no doubt have already used.
CTP Dungeon Reskin by Ashtefere
Moderators: Winterhawk99, Mermut, Bannor Bloodfist, Black Rider
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Bannor Bloodfist
- Posts: 1244
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- ctp: Yes
- dla: Yes
- TBotR: Yes
- nwnihof: Yes
Maxam, the reskins are totally optional. we have a total of 4 of them, but only releasing this one at this time.
They do NOT have to be installed at all, and are not affected by the main control files etc.
Why did we not do a non-replacing version? Size, For one, and now, well, we just don't have the staff to do it.
This one does make the default bioware dungeon look a bit different, and you may wish to investigate on whether it will be useful for you. But, if it is not, then just don't add it to the mod.
They do NOT have to be installed at all, and are not affected by the main control files etc.
Why did we not do a non-replacing version? Size, For one, and now, well, we just don't have the staff to do it.
This one does make the default bioware dungeon look a bit different, and you may wish to investigate on whether it will be useful for you. But, if it is not, then just don't add it to the mod.
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Guest
[QUOTE=Bannor Bloodfist]Maxam, the reskins are totally optional. we have a total of 4 of them, but only releasing this one at this time.
They do NOT have to be installed at all, and are not affected by the main control files etc.[/QUOTE]
I understand that they are optional. That wasn't what I was getting at...
[QUOTE]This one does make the default bioware dungeon look a bit different, and you may wish to investigate on whether it will be useful for you. But, if it is not, then just don't add it to the mod.[/QUOTE]
And here's my point - it's not just the default bioware dungeon that looks different. A great deal of CEP placeables are affected by this (and any other similar re-skins). With the widespread acceptance/use of the CEP, surely this would lead to a lot of people excercising their option to not use it. Which would be a shame.
They do NOT have to be installed at all, and are not affected by the main control files etc.[/QUOTE]
I understand that they are optional. That wasn't what I was getting at...
[QUOTE]This one does make the default bioware dungeon look a bit different, and you may wish to investigate on whether it will be useful for you. But, if it is not, then just don't add it to the mod.[/QUOTE]
And here's my point - it's not just the default bioware dungeon that looks different. A great deal of CEP placeables are affected by this (and any other similar re-skins). With the widespread acceptance/use of the CEP, surely this would lead to a lot of people excercising their option to not use it. Which would be a shame.
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Primogenitor
- Posts: 49
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:24 am
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Guest
Maxam, please do post up a screenshot so we can see what you are talking about.
Does it only affect the CEP textures of things placed in the module or does it affect them in the toolset? The way I understand the textures working is that it would alter them in the toolset as well as in game if they are changed, and for the life of me I can't see what you are talking about in the tileset.
Any extra information you can give will be extremely helpful.
Thanks
Rob
Does it only affect the CEP textures of things placed in the module or does it affect them in the toolset? The way I understand the textures working is that it would alter them in the toolset as well as in game if they are changed, and for the life of me I can't see what you are talking about in the tileset.
Any extra information you can give will be extremely helpful.
Thanks
Rob
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Guest
[QUOTE=Primogenitor]Just how bad does it look then?[/QUOTE]
It may look fabulous, it may not - I don't know. I don't have access to the tileset reskin in question.
Please understand me - this is not a criticism of Ashtefere's work, quite the reverse.
[QUOTE=Primogenitor]Off-hand, it seems to me that textures will be replaced with textures of the same type (stone with stone, wood with wood, etc) so therefore though other things may look slightly different, they wont look terrible.[/QUOTE]
Yes, they will look slightly different, but you can't guarantee they won't look terrible (not by virtue of the /quality/ of the textures, how they gel with other textures in the CEP).
For example take a look at the following CEP placeable:
Dungeon>Lighting>Fire Arch w/ chains
Note the black marble texture of the two pointed sides. This is a dungeon texture. Now it may be replaced with a plain stone texture, maybe. Maybe it's replaced with a slimy coblestone texture. Maybe its replaced with a lichen encrusted cobblestone texture. Maybe its replaced with a diamond texture, who knows?
The point is - does the average builder who uses the CEP want to add this hak to their module and then find all the CEP placeables that they use and make sure they're still aesthetically pleasing?
[QUOTE=Doorman]Does it only affect the CEP textures of things placed in the module or does it affect them in the toolset? The way I understand the textures working is that it would alter them in the toolset as well as in game if they are changed, and for the life of me I can't see what you are talking about in the tileset.[/QUOTE]
Yes Doorman, it affects the textures of certain CEP models (in this case those referencing Bioware Dungeon textures). Any module with this hak attached will be affected in this way, both in the toolset and in game.
My point is that this may lead less people to use this hak than otherwise would have, which makes the effort that Ashteffere has put into the reskin kind of redundant.
To put it in context, here's the original post by Bannor Bloodfist in the CTP release one info altered to reflect the effect it has on the CEP:
[QUOTE]
NOTE: This reskin REQUIRES the Bioware Dungeon Tileset to work. This should not be a problem unless you are using the default Bioware Dungeon or the CEP in your mod. If you are currently using the default Bioware Dungeon set or the CEP, AND if you require the original look and feel, then do NOT attempt to install this hak. Otherwise, this is a complete replacement for the Bioware Dungeon and really makes that dungeon look good.[/QUOTE]
It may look fabulous, it may not - I don't know. I don't have access to the tileset reskin in question.
Please understand me - this is not a criticism of Ashtefere's work, quite the reverse.
[QUOTE=Primogenitor]Off-hand, it seems to me that textures will be replaced with textures of the same type (stone with stone, wood with wood, etc) so therefore though other things may look slightly different, they wont look terrible.[/QUOTE]
Yes, they will look slightly different, but you can't guarantee they won't look terrible (not by virtue of the /quality/ of the textures, how they gel with other textures in the CEP).
For example take a look at the following CEP placeable:
Dungeon>Lighting>Fire Arch w/ chains
Note the black marble texture of the two pointed sides. This is a dungeon texture. Now it may be replaced with a plain stone texture, maybe. Maybe it's replaced with a slimy coblestone texture. Maybe its replaced with a lichen encrusted cobblestone texture. Maybe its replaced with a diamond texture, who knows?
The point is - does the average builder who uses the CEP want to add this hak to their module and then find all the CEP placeables that they use and make sure they're still aesthetically pleasing?
[QUOTE=Doorman]Does it only affect the CEP textures of things placed in the module or does it affect them in the toolset? The way I understand the textures working is that it would alter them in the toolset as well as in game if they are changed, and for the life of me I can't see what you are talking about in the tileset.[/QUOTE]
Yes Doorman, it affects the textures of certain CEP models (in this case those referencing Bioware Dungeon textures). Any module with this hak attached will be affected in this way, both in the toolset and in game.
My point is that this may lead less people to use this hak than otherwise would have, which makes the effort that Ashteffere has put into the reskin kind of redundant.
To put it in context, here's the original post by Bannor Bloodfist in the CTP release one info altered to reflect the effect it has on the CEP:
[QUOTE]
NOTE: This reskin REQUIRES the Bioware Dungeon Tileset to work. This should not be a problem unless you are using the default Bioware Dungeon or the CEP in your mod. If you are currently using the default Bioware Dungeon set or the CEP, AND if you require the original look and feel, then do NOT attempt to install this hak. Otherwise, this is a complete replacement for the Bioware Dungeon and really makes that dungeon look good.[/QUOTE]
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Christopher
- Posts: 267
- Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:21 pm
- ctp: No
- dla: No
- TBotR: No
- nwnihof: No
Maxam, I see you reasoning on this issue. The problem gets down to a few other fine points beyond man power. One of the major issues for the project has been reparing the damage done by comp / decomp. After doing repair on God knows how many Bioware tiles that were just reskinned and then BROKEN by that app. We are cutting corners at this point big time to get this project out the door. Many Bioware errors are just being skipped and we are fixing what was broken by the CC author.
This reskin just improves the look. Frankly, I doubt that the CEP would be hurt by some imporved DDS textures. Some of the Bioware defaults (take wood for example) could really use some work.
Here is the list of textures in this lone hak that are effected.
tde01_black.dds
tde01_chain.dds
tde01_crystal01.dds
tde01_door1.dds
tde01_floor1.dds
tde01_floor2.dds
tde01_grad_l.dds
tde01_grate.dds
tde01_grate2a.dds
tde01_grate2b.dds
tde01_lava01.dds
tde01_lavaspot.dds
tde01_rock1a.dds
tde01_sripts.dds
tde01_statue01.dds
tde01_symbols3.dds
tde01_symbols3.txi
tde01_symbolsa.dds
tde01_symbolsb.dds
tde01_wall1.dds
tde01_wall2.dds
tde01_wall3.dds
tde01_wall4.dds
tde01_wall6.dds
tde01_wall7.dds
tde01_wall8.dds
tde01_wall9.dds
tde01_wall9c.dds
tde01_wall9d.dds
tde01_wall9e.dds
tde01_wall9f.dds
tde01_wall9f.txi
tde01_wall9fa.dds
tde01_wall9g.dds
tde01_wall9h.dds
tde01_wall9k.dds
tde01_wall9k1.dds
tde01_wall9l.dds
tde01_wall9m.dds
tde01_wall9o.dds
tde01_wall9p.dds
tde01_wall9p.txi
tde01__ref01.dds
If someone felt that a given textures rusults were to broad they could cut it out of the hak. None the less thank you for putting this potential issue out in the open.
This reskin just improves the look. Frankly, I doubt that the CEP would be hurt by some imporved DDS textures. Some of the Bioware defaults (take wood for example) could really use some work.
Here is the list of textures in this lone hak that are effected.
tde01_black.dds
tde01_chain.dds
tde01_crystal01.dds
tde01_door1.dds
tde01_floor1.dds
tde01_floor2.dds
tde01_grad_l.dds
tde01_grate.dds
tde01_grate2a.dds
tde01_grate2b.dds
tde01_lava01.dds
tde01_lavaspot.dds
tde01_rock1a.dds
tde01_sripts.dds
tde01_statue01.dds
tde01_symbols3.dds
tde01_symbols3.txi
tde01_symbolsa.dds
tde01_symbolsb.dds
tde01_wall1.dds
tde01_wall2.dds
tde01_wall3.dds
tde01_wall4.dds
tde01_wall6.dds
tde01_wall7.dds
tde01_wall8.dds
tde01_wall9.dds
tde01_wall9c.dds
tde01_wall9d.dds
tde01_wall9e.dds
tde01_wall9f.dds
tde01_wall9f.txi
tde01_wall9fa.dds
tde01_wall9g.dds
tde01_wall9h.dds
tde01_wall9k.dds
tde01_wall9k1.dds
tde01_wall9l.dds
tde01_wall9m.dds
tde01_wall9o.dds
tde01_wall9p.dds
tde01_wall9p.txi
tde01__ref01.dds
If someone felt that a given textures rusults were to broad they could cut it out of the hak. None the less thank you for putting this potential issue out in the open.