City of Doors Initiative // Sigil
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City of Doors Initiative // Sigil

Post by Guest »

I have been looking at a wall of posts for over two months now and I have never seen anything that has regarded one of my favorite Halloween Town sets or as most people know it as the Sigil set. :p:

I did some bug hunting on this one and straight up i can tell you that either CTP didn’t know anything about it or, they didn’t want to mess with it because it lacked enough custom tiles or maybe because it was in desperate need of one bad @$$ exterminator to kill all those bugs. :eek2:

I was really looking forward to making a cool looking run down spooky district. Perhaps asking to move some of these tiles into City Exterior or exterior rural would be too much to ask for. :confused2

none the less this set looked so amazing to me that I wanted to post it to see how other people take it in. :biggrin2:

(If this is already in CTP sorry for my stupidity)
(Screenies)
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7314580863.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7314550911.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7314591044.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7314570940.jpg&s=x11



Artists:

* Adam Miller
* batinthehat
* GhostFactory
* Jupp
* Saep
* Schazzwozzer
* Snowmit
* Tranquil

Support:

* Papermonk (Project Coordinator)
* MacIntyre (Organization)

The following people also deserve credit for all the non-tileset related work that went into CODI and Foundations. Although the module may not ever see the light of day, it still underwent hours and hours of development. Among those who contributed significantly to the work:

* AM
* Bigfoot
* Halfelf
* Koipond
* Kuhrak
* NamelessOne
* Shkuey
* Sporeboy
* TheUndyingKing
* Thraka


www.city-of-doors.com (Links may be old this was mod credits)

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Bannor Bloodfist
Posts: 1244
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ctp: Yes
dla: Yes
TBotR: Yes
nwnihof: Yes

Post by Bannor Bloodfist »

We looked at the Sigil set when it was first released. However, three things.

1) It was released AFTER we had already locked down potential content
2) It was a very incomplete tileset(s)
3) It was very buggy.

So, Sigil won't be included in anything we release.

Maybe at some point in the future, we can pull the tiles that are useful out to merge with some other sets, but as they stand right now, there are just not enough in there to be worth the effort.

Jacen Saracen
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:56 am

Post by Jacen Saracen »

[QUOTE=Bannor Bloodfist]We looked at the Sigil set when it was first released. However, three things.

1) It was released AFTER we had already locked down potential content
2) It was a very incomplete tileset(s)
3) It was very buggy.

So, Sigil won't be included in anything we release.

Maybe at some point in the future, we can pull the tiles that are useful out to merge with some other sets, but as they stand right now, there are just not enough in there to be worth the effort.[/QUOTE]

I would strongly recommend that you make the "locked-down" content more like probably locked-down content.

Why?

What happens if somebody comes along and asks you to include the PERFECT tileset, bug-free and well-made, where all you would have to is edit your control 2da's to include it?

Why wouldn't you make a small change and add it in?

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DM_Mask
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Post by DM_Mask »

'Cause "The PERFECT tileset, bug-free and well-made" is a creature of myth, it doesn't actually exist, and despite the lack of any prior found errors, CTP will run it through their own gauntlet to ensure their are no bug's. This will of course take time, and testers, Trust me, CTP will find bugs.

Most people may think of geek's as the 14-17 year old, pimp faced, glasses wearing, kid that sucked in gym class. What you don't realize is project's like this typically have a few Exhalted geek's who go through everything with the cold precision of Mr Spock. CTP team by far and large could be simply refered to as "Spock spawn" without much argument.

Your never gonna encounter a tileset, or any content the CTP team would just stick in without extensive in-house testing, This fact alone is why so many builder's are waiting for CTP to finish the first ten instead of using other tileset hak's.

Primogenitor
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:24 am

Post by Primogenitor »

Also, how do you know its a perfect tileset? By spending the time to test it yourself, time the CTP should be spending on finishing what they already have :)

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Bannor Bloodfist
Posts: 1244
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:45 pm
ctp: Yes
dla: Yes
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Post by Bannor Bloodfist »

[quote=Jacen Saracen]

I would strongly recommend that you make the "locked-down" content more like probably locked-down content.

Why?

What happens if somebody comes along and asks you to include the PERFECT tileset, bug-free and well-made, where all you would have to is edit your control 2da's to include it?

Why wouldn't you make a small change and add it in?[/quote]

Actually, that pretty much is the current status Jacen.

We are 'locked down' and have been for a while. However, changes HAVE been made to some of the original sets we chose. Changes that improve the set without having to do an ungodly amount of work only though.

We have and will continue to, offer our services to tileset makers as well.

We did initial tests for Chandigar with his Aztec redux set. It's a beautiful set, and we do, at some point, intend to include it. But right now, ALL of our energy on fixing sets is directed at the first 10 sets ONLY.

We are (Actually OMB is), developing some additional new tools that will help us get the 2nd set of ten out the door faster. We are using the 1st ten as guinnea pigs on these scripts, but still manually fixing all the errors.

I have recently seen evidence of a few new people (at least new to us) that are working on sets of their own. These artists are ALL invited to contact us and we will offer our testbed to help them 'clean up' the sets they are working on. We just can't currently offer labor on fixing any new sets right now. We have more than enough work behind and ahead of us to keep us busy for quite some time.

Don't worry, just because it doesn't say CTP doesn't mean it's not a decent set. The difference though, is that we have attempted to make the sets more flexible, to play nicer with other sets of the same genre. As in adding certain tiles or tile types to rural sets so that a 'theme' can be followed for transportation options (IE, adding portals, caravans, airships, ships etc) that have all been adjusted and fixed to work better.

Color adjustments were made on some things, textures replaced with higher quality in certain instances. But the most important bugs are where our labors are mostly being spent. Killing walkmesh issues is critical to any set being 'usable'. Next would probably be the sparkles as they are the most 'common' type of bug, closely followed by those pesky shadow issues. After those three types of bugs are cleaned up, we go back and re-test the FULL set again. This time through we are verifying that the bugs we fixed are not causing other issues, and we again do a texture map check to make sure that textures are properly uvw mapped onto the tiles in general.

You would be surprised at the number of bugs found in a single set that has been rated as in the TOP TEN list of tilesets from the vault. People get frustrated when building a set. It is more work than just about anyone realizes until you try it yourself. So, shortcuts get taken. Tiles don't always get thoroughly tested. Rarely placed tiles get missed altogether.

CTP has a routine setup whereby EVERY single tile in a tileset is placed at least once, and typically much more than that. This gives us the ability to see the tile under different lighting conditions. Different edge conditions. (Walkmesh issues crop up even when you think a tile is perfect when you place that tile in position 'y' instead of the normal position 'x' that most people see.)

Anyway. We will not completely exclude a tileset from future consideration as an addition to the sets we will test and fix. But we don't want to waste our energy on testing a set right now, that we can't possiblly fix until after our other sets are done.

Sigil was one of those sets. Too little content to make it worthwhile. The content that was there is buggy. We just don't have the staff to go add that set into our workload, especially since that set is now an 'orphan' set where the original artists will not be available to fix or finish their own work.

Keep your eyes on Helvene, she is doing some amazing work and has a real artist's eye.

RDX and Lord Rosenkrantz have also done some amazing work, but we already 'snagged' them onto our team, so you will see their efforts manifested in the fixed sets we release.

Chandigar does some really amazing work. You have seen his Aztec sets, and man, that Aztec Redux is a beaut! But we have not included that set in our release plans yet. His Gothic sets, which ARE included in the first ten we are releasing are also very VERY good work.

Lord Sullivan has already contributed some of his tiles to our efforts and has helped us a bit on fixing a set.

People like Stilgar, his City Castle set is also very well made and on the plus side, he keeps expanding it and fixing bugs as they are reported to him.

There are others out there that do some grand tile work as well. I can't think of their names off the top of my head, but they DO exist. We will NOT exclude them, but we also can't include them at this present time.

Now, do you mind very much if I get back to work?

raven280
Posts: 95
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2003 10:31 pm

It was cool...

Post by raven280 »

Hey guys,

I too thought that Sigil was an awsome looking tileset too, till I downloaded Demon and played through it....very buggy indeed. It would be neat to have it as a release someday, but there are much better tilesets coming in our first release like Gothic interior/exterior. What ever happened to CODI? Did they throw in the towel like DOA and just quit NWN all together?As cool as Sigil looked, I was always hoping someone would have done some Ravenloft style tilesets for some haunted adventuring in NWN1.

Raven280

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Bannor Bloodfist
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Post by Bannor Bloodfist »

[quote=RAVEN280]Hey guys,

I too thought that Sigil was an awsome looking tileset too, till I downloaded Demon and played through it....very buggy indeed. It would be neat to have it as a release someday, but there are much better tilesets coming in our first release like Gothic interior/exterior. What ever happened to CODI? Did they throw in the towel like DOA and just quit NWN all together?As cool as Sigil looked, I was always hoping someone would have done some Ravenloft style tilesets for some haunted adventuring in NWN1.

Raven280[/quote]

Codi morphed into a new name, attempted to create a DD mod for Bioware. I don't think it worked out though. So not sure if anyone from their team is still around or not at this point.

Some of the original members from Codi have moved onto other projects though, so it is possible some new content will still get released by them. I just don't know under what names etc...

Jacen Saracen
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Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:56 am

Post by Jacen Saracen »

[QUOTE=Bannor Bloodfist]Now, do you mind very much if I get back to work?[/QUOTE]

*Casually, lazily waves Bannor off*

You may go. :D

Seriously, what seperates you guys from other groups that I've witnessed is your nearly continuous communication with the community. Many builders have a narrow-minded view that by communicating, they are wasting time that they could dedicate instead to the work they are trying to accomplish.

Of course what they often do not realize is that six quiet months go by, and nobody seems to care anymore. That such communication works in multiple ways- advertisement, recruitment of talent and continued appreciation for the steps they are taking to improve the community's options. Your "dev posts" keep us hungry, informed and most importantly, in tact.

Guest

Post by Guest »

CODI does not exist anymore. Whatever happened with the Bioware DD deal decimated what was already a team in dire straits, and it seems to me none of the team members are contributing to NWN anymore in any way, shape or form. There exists some IRC traffic, and a mysterious website, but nothing to indicate any kind of forthcoming release, or even the liberation of the CODI backlog of models, some of which I remember betatesting all those years ago. It has also been stated they have no intent of going back to the Sigil tileset.

Ergo, they're only a "what-if" in the development history of NWN, nothing more.

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