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chaos_theocrat
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat May 31, 2008 12:18 am

Skybox Tutorial Link...

Post by chaos_theocrat »

[quote=Izk The Mad;11519] Anyone have any suggestions or know of any good tutorials for making skyboxes?[/quote]

Here is a link to a tutorial that was posted on the Vault, by Mohss: :thumb:
http://nwvault.ign.com/?dir=resources/tutorials/Mohss/
I've never tried it, so I don't know if his technique is the best one for making Nwn1 skyboxes... however, it was the only one I could find.

On different, but related, note... I tried my hand a while back at making a skybox for Nwn2, once Mask of The Betrayer implemented skyboxes. I had followed an interesting tutorial that was on the Vault at the time for it, and I created one that was based on a classical hellscape painting by John Martin. The only trouble with Nwn2 skyboxes is it's hard to get the whole image on the screen in a convincing way without extensive editing.
For the curious, here is a link to the painting that I was speaking of: :icon_arrow:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:John_Martin_002.jpg

raven280
Posts: 95
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2003 10:31 pm

Post by raven280 »

Just a thought I had the other day, but I wanted to throw it out here on the CSP forum. Would it be possible to create sky boxes of NWN screen shots? For example, a screen shot of NWN rural hills, or perhaps a NWN town/city painted onto the edge of real hills or towns via a sky box. I thought if it could be done, it could blend adjacent areas using the sky and horizon scenery in a more realistic way...

On a different note, if you know how and have the time, I would love to see you or anyone else add ceilings to the interior CTP tilesets....heck, I would even love to have that added to the Bioware interior tilesets. One of my all time favorite tilesets is classic dungeon by maxam, and I think the ceilings are a big part of why I have enjoyed that tileset. Interior ceilings, just like sky boxes for exterior tilesets add so much to NWN IMHO. Keep us updated on your sky box projects....

chaos_theocrat
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat May 31, 2008 12:18 am

Why Screen Shots make for difficult Skyboxes...

Post by chaos_theocrat »

In theory, any picture can be used for a skybox image, so screen shots of in-game Nwn would work too. The problem is not with the image type, but with the implementation of the image itself. Here are some considerations:

The biggest problem with using Nwn screen shots... is with the difference in scale between the sky and the world. Basically, even with the camera zoomed all the way out, what you see in any screen shot is still from the same perspective as what you see in the game world itself. You can shrink a screen shot and still make it a convincing painting, but what happens if you blow it up for a skybox is that, no matter how far out you stood when you took the screen shot, the image will still be larger than life when you see it on the horizon. At best, it would be like having giant versions of everything you see in the foreground in the background. Very simply...

The backdrops used in the skies found in the CSP are painted to appear distant to begin with, so they work because they are on a distant scale, wheras the game world is on a close scale. Since screen shots are from the same scale as the game world, this makes them unsuitable for use in the distance. Plus, images in the distance of the screen shot would blur rather than seem to appear smaller, so that also would affact the image.

And then, there is the problem of the character. You'd have to edit out your character from the image to prevent it from looking like it came from a "land of the giants" scenario. If other characters were present, you'd need to edit them out as well. So, that would be more work than most would prefer to do, and doing a cut and blend of that sort would be hard to make natural-looking. That, basically, sums up the problems involved.

It is not impossible to overcome all of these problems with some work, but for the most part it would not be as worthwhile as simply using an image that is distant to begin with, and so suitable for use in the distance. I hope I've made some sense here, as the matter is fairly technical. :D

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As for your other question, regarding interior roofs...
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Myself, I am terrible at building skyboxes. I am better at just combining existing ones.
It would indeed be possible for someone either from these forums, or on the Vault, to make some skyboxes that look like interior ceilings, and release them for inclusion in the CSP. I hope someone does, in fact, as those type of things are always most useful! So, let's keep our fingers crossed and see what some talented folks can come up with.

However, if you are looking for physical roof additions for tilesets... such as placeable roofs, or roofs that are part of the tilesets themselves... I'm afraid that is a little bit beyond the scope of the CSP, which is just a compilation for skyboxes. Perhaps you'd have better luck inquiring with the CTP team (tilesets) or the CEP team (placeables), if it's not skybox-style ceilings you're looking for. I hope this is of some assistance to you.

Thank you for posting, and farewell for now!

Izk The Mad
Posts: 100
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:40 pm

Post by Izk The Mad »

Aah, so this is what started it...

I've wondered about something along the lines of the screenshot idea. I even have a wand of "cutscene invisibility" I made for taking some of the screenshots of my module which would help with that. The cityscape fading off in the distance idea in particular, as I think it would add some depth to the view, if the player was above street level. I'll add that to the list of future experiments. I'm not sure I'd bother with a sky of the rural hills, just 'cause they're so damn ugly. :D Maybe I'll try something like the hills in CSP, but higher res.

I think any interior tilesets that don't have ceilings already would be better with placeable ceilings (there's a few in CEP), due to the technical limits of the skyboxes and how they'd look in game above the tileset walls. And I agree about the tilesets that do have ceilings, like Maxam's Classic Dungeon (a fav of mine, as well as Natural Caves). It really does add something, IMO. I have a couple ideas I'd like to try though, like maybe a LoTR Mohria sky, with pillars fading off into the distance. I think anything like that would look better with no walls to interfere with perspective, like surrounding the area with a pit tile, or something. I probably wouldn't do a floor, and just have the pillars rising up out of the darkness. Hmm... *moves to top of list of future experiments* :thumb:

Izk The Mad
Posts: 100
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:40 pm

panoramic screenshots

Post by Izk The Mad »

I'm stuck on the cityscape idea, at the moment. It could be an interesting experiment in the toolset, as well. I think if I build a special area with carefully placed waypoints, and a little camera height and fog adjustment, I could make a decent panorama with four views. Maybe a 32x32 city area of paintable "buildings" with a large cobble space in the middle, where the shots would be taken from, if you can picture it. Everything from the sidewalk/first floor down would be removed from the image. Throw in some height changes to vary the paintable building heights, and maybe some towers or other "group" buildings for variety in there somewhere. It just might work. Since the player won't see it much down on street level, the perspective changes and such shouldn't really matter. I would have to make day/night transitions for that, though. Perhaps a version with forest and hills on one half instead, which would work for Raven280's idea about "blending" adjacent areas.

This just might be one of those overly ambitious ideas that just won't work right in NWN. More and more I'm finding the simpler skies just look better in-game, in relation to the horizon and the tileset edges. Still, it's worth a little experimentation, especially if I just do hills on half of it. It's on my list now, anyway. :)

chaos_theocrat
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat May 31, 2008 12:18 am

Ah, Experiments!!!

Post by chaos_theocrat »

I have to agree with Izk, in my honest opinion, that placeable roofs are a lot more realistic looking than skybox "roofs". In my prefabs I always make at least some use of the CEP's placeable roofs. Recently, I've made use of a slightly modified Cave Ruins replacing tileset in many of my modules, the most recent being Crypt of Medea, and it makes the mines/caverns very life-like. (I believe Zork I: the Great Underground Empire was my first Nwn module to make use of it.) At any rate, regarding screenshot experiments:

If you manage to create a really good look using the screenshot as skybox idea, Izk, be sure to post some pics so we can have a look. I'm interested to see if this can be done, and how it looks in-game. The theory is sound, and if it works good in practice... it could present some new possibilities. And, of course, if it doesn't work we're none the worse for giving it a tray!
:)

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