The Harvest Moon Consortium

For those "category 3" users (Builders wanting to use the CTP on a pre-existing project with tileset related hak packs) I wondered if there would be much interest if anyone wanted to use letoscript to try to move their modules from using the existing tileset haks to using the same tileset if its included in the CTP.

For those that dont know, the Leto suite of tools is produced by Dragonsong that started with the Leto character editor and has since evolved into many different products, including a low-level gff manipulation language. http://weathersong.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x For this sort of application, the Moneo utility would be most useful. This could take some letoscript code and replace all references in a module to the old tileset with the new tileset. Its nothing that a builder couldn't do by hand, but it would be automated, and therefore a lot faster and reliable.

For example, if you had a 50 area module, and 10 of those areas used tileset Alpha (a hypothetical tileset). Alpha was added as a stand-alone hak, but is also in the CTP. If the .set file is not renamed between the stand-alone and CTP, then you should be able to simply swap the haks, which doesn't require any other changes and is straightforward.
However, I assume that most tilesets have been renamed in some way? If so then by hand, the builder would have to open every .are file in the .mod and change the TileSet field from the old .set to the new .set Also, if any tiles were renumbered (for example, two variations merged), then the builder would have to go through the Tile_List list in each .are file and check each tiles number, changing those that have been renumbered as appropriate.
If letoscript + moneo was used, then this process could be automated and would be a lot faster. Also, if you wanted to randomly replace some tiles with new options in the CTP (for example, if before there was only 2 tree tiles and with CTP there was 5) that could be written into the letoscript as well.

There are a few drawbacks to this however. Firstly it requires learning how to use yet another tool and secondly learning how to use letoscript. On the plus side, once youve got letoscript, you can use it on a live server via NWNX and the NWNX-Letoscript plugin to modify almost any gff data dynamically (e.g. renaming NPCs). Or you could use it to reduce some tedium when building, for example if you wanted to change the OnEnter script for all the areas in a module. Thirdly, it requires you to learn what gff data is and what the various filetypes mean (nwn.bioware.com/developers is a good resource. Maybe this should be added to the "What every good builder should know" thread?)

Obviously this topic isn't much good before the CTP is released, but I thought I would mention it for anyone who would be put off from the CTP becuase of having to do a lot of work to move their module over to use CTP tilesets as opposed to their hand-picked haks. If anyone wants more information or questions, feel free to ask and Ill answer as best as I can.

[font=&quot]Primogenitor, thank you once again for sharing your insights. You are fast moving toward contracted 'CTP Think Tank'.
:_frizz1:
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Most deifintely not on this. From what I understand this would not work well as a converter from non-CTP to CTP tileset.

We have made extensive modifications. Renamed files, changed files etc. The amount of work and the level of potential confusion that would result from an attempt to convert an area to a CTP tileset would far outwiegh the cost in time and sanity that it would take to rebuild the area using the CTP tileset.

If you are trying to plan ahead on how to incorporate the CTP into your world, this method will not work. I apologize for using such strong language but I want to make it absolutely clear that this should not be viewed as a possible solution.

A GFF editor can be used with the CTP but only in a very specific way. If you are using a bioware tileset (i.e. Desert) and you are not using any tileset haks, you can use the GFF editor to change the "tileset used" to the CTP expansion of that tileset (in this case, CTP Desert). But this is only because this tileset is an expansion of the Bioware tileset.

There is no way to use a GFF editor for a CTP custom tileset.

Is that a challenge Banshe? Could you give me a hypothetical (in order not to breach release security), yet practical (so its actually useful), example? Such as a .set file from outside CTP and the same file after CTP has modified it, or a censored derivative? Or point me to a similar scenario on the vault with two versions of the same hak? I suspect I can write some letoscript that will convert a module from one to the other.

The only things that an .are file contains are a .set file resref and a list of all the tile numbers, rotations, and scaled height (i.e 1,2,3 not 10m, 20m, 30m) in the area. The .are doesnt contain any information on filenames, model information, pathfinding, shadows, textures, or anything else. Thus all you have to do is alter the resref and loop over the tile list replacing as appropriate. The hard part is making a list of what old tile equals what new tile, but that only has to be done once.

If you recreated the area from scratch, you would have to not only re-create the tiles of that area but also move/copy every placeable, creature, trigger, waypoint, sound, and door. You might not think thats a huge problem (select all, copy, paste), but that will wreck stacked placeables because they will fall to the floor. And you have to do that for every area that uses that tileset, or any other tileset you want to move over to CTP. In a large module that could take weeks, and during that time you couldnt really use half and half because that would require both the custom tileset hak and the CTP.

I'm not saying this is an easy or simple way, but for some people (e.g. large advanced PWs with lots of users, just the type of people who will make or break CTPs success) it may be the best, or even only, option.

Uh oh. Now I've done it...

OK, here is the stance that the CTP is going to take on this: You will not be able to convert existing areas using a vault version of a custom tileset into a ctp version of the same tileset. I.e. if you download Gothic Interiors of the vault, you will not be able to replace it with the CTP Gothic Interiors.


That is where we stand. However, that does not preclude you coming up with a system that can convert an area. However, if you do, we won't offer tech support or endorse it. It will fall on you to address any community issues arising from the use of this tool.


Off the record: It sounds like a fine idea

On the record: It falls outside of the scope of the CTP design parameters. Therefore builders employ your tool at their own risk and we won't be able to help them if they have problems.